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So, Dems, what exactly are you hoping to get out of this in terms of gun control?

By KimJongUn following x   2017 Oct 3, 10:52am 1,516 views   144 comments   watch   quote     share  

Realistically. (No loony shit, please.)

And what would you be willing to trade for it?

I have a proposal, but I'll hold on to it for now.

UPDATE: Please refrain from virtue signalling in this thread - we have plenty of that in other threads related to LV shooting already.

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105 bob2356   2017 Oct 7, 2:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says

How's that Homicide Rate doin' in comparison? In must be exploding with all these arms sales.


You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993. Gun sales go up, murders go up. Then gun sales go up, murders go down. Thunderlips says this is correlation. gallup poll more accurate? (the same gallup poll you called fake news so often, that gallup poll? but wait CIC says people lie to gallup. you guys really need to get the same page). Weasel much? What happened to you calling a 5% drop in murder rate a collapse? Crickets chirping on that one. Yearly growth? The yearly growth didn't pick up until 2010 which is 10 years after the murder rate dropped. Estimated by NCIS checks? Doesn't go up until 2008, 8 years after the murder rate drops. This is correlation somehow? You guys really are a joke

me123 says
please post the chart that shows how many legal gun owners are selling their guns to criminals.


Been posted time and time again. Been proven time and time again. You have forgotten time and time again. You will certainly be waiting a very long time if you can't remember anything. Sorry but there is nothing I can do about your Alzheimers getting worse and worse. The phrase you really need to know at this point is geriatric specialist.
106 me123   2017 Oct 7, 2:22pm   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
bob2356 says
You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993. Gun sales go up, murders go up. Then gun sales go up, murders go down.


Oh bobby, so sad. Here's a hint, gun sales go up EVERY year and that adds to the cumulative total owned, which means more total available, and many of the past years have seen record additional sales annually. THE number of actual people killed annually has gone DOWN. What don't you understand about that data?

bob2356 says
me123 says
please post the chart that shows how many legal gun owners are selling their guns to criminals.


Been posted time and time again. Been proven time and time again.


Why do you lie so much, you're really getting as bad as your two buddies. That has NEVER been posted or proven, but prove me wrong by reposting it.

I know you can't do that, but I'll wait.
108 bob2356   2017 Oct 8, 4:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
bob2356 says
You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993. Gun sales go up, murders go up. Then gun sales go up, murders go down.


Oh bobby, so sad. Here's a hint, gun sales go up EVERY year and that adds to the cumulative total owned, which means more total available, and many of the past years have seen record additional sales annually. THE number of actual people killed annually has gone DOWN. What don't you understand about that data?
f

So sad. The number of actual people killed annually actually went UP for 25 years while gun sales went up EVERY year before the number of people killed annually started going down. What don't you understand about that data? Are the gun/god nuts now claiming the guns and gun murders didn't exist before 1993?

me123 says
but prove me wrong by reposting it.


Why bother you won't remember it tomorrow or even a couple hours from now.
109 me123   2017 Oct 8, 8:29am   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
bob2356 says
So sad. The number of actual people killed annually actually went UP for 25 years while gun sales went up EVERY year before the number of people killed annually started going down. What don't you understand about that data?


Understanding data.

Did you even read what you posted? Guns sales continue to go up while the direction of homicides has gone down.

Come on bobby, even my dog can understand that concept. It destroys your narrative that more guns = more killings.
110 FortWayne   2017 Oct 8, 10:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
murder is illegal
mass shootings are illegal
machine guns are illegal

What else should we make illegal that will cause criminals to suddenly care about laws? That's a thing about the left, they mastered the skill of ignoring reality long ago. Only know how to pound their chests and make demands, but can never get anything figured out or done.
111 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 8, 1:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
bob2356 says

You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993

You have a chart for that? I don't. Only since 1986. Gun sale growth went up in the last few years of the homicide rate increase; the homicide rate nationally began increasing in the late 1960s.

The more Guns = more homicides is completely wrong for this century, especially.

What else happened in the 60s that might have led to more homicide?
112 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 8, 2:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
Still no specifics from the Anti-2A crowd on how they would restrict firearms effectively.
113 iwog   2017 Oct 8, 2:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
Notice no Leftie has dared offer an opinion on HOW to effectively ban firearms


I'll ask the same question and once again burn down your stupid straw man.

Who is advocating banning firearms here? Do you have any fucking idea how stupid it is going after people who own firearms and falsely attributing to them a desire to ban guns??
114 bob2356   2017 Oct 8, 3:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
You have a chart for that? I don't. Only since 1986. Gun sale growth went up in the last few years of the homicide rate increase; the homicide rate nationally began increasing in the late 1960s.


You posted the chart of murders from 1960 on for christ sakes. Don't you know what you've posted? I posted the data also but in a list. Here is is again. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm . Murders tripled 1960 to 1993. Go look.Or look at your own frigging chart. The chart of the number of guns in the us since 1942 is already posted also. The number of guns went up up up during the period as did murders. Which makes you and dimbulbs claim that an increasing number guns drives down the murders total bullshit.

There was a small blip in 92/93 of less than 2 million new guns a year above the previous years added to the 250 million guns already in circulation at the time. Are you seriously suggesting that additional gun sales of 0.8% a year for a couple years drove the murder rate down? You want to ride that horse? Really? I know you guys absolutely suck at math but that's beyond absurd. Besides the murder rate was already decreasing by then. Gun sales actually started spiking in 2009-2010, 10 years after the murder rate flat lined. This is all from your own charts, don't you look at them?

Give it up, there is no way to support this turkey.
115 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 8, 3:13pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
bob2356 says

Give it up, there is no way to support this turkey.


Yep, Gun ownership is wayyyy up, compounded year after year. Yet the homicide rate dropped in half as states expanded Concealed Carry, Shall Issue, and the Assault Ban expired. In 2008 firearms sales exploded, yet the homicide rate continued to decline.

What's really remarkable is that the US has the most civilian firearms ownership in the world by far, and the homicide rate does not reflect that.

There is NO link between the increasing prevalence of firearms and the decreasing homicide rate.

Again, if you control for the 13% who commit more than half of the homicides, it's even more dramatic.

Bob, do you want more gun restrictions?

iwog says
Who is advocating banning firearms here? Do you have any fucking idea how stupid it is going after people who own firearms and falsely attributing to them a desire to ban guns??


Are you the only one here, Iwog? Are there no other posters besides you in this thread? Who was last being addressed by the last few posts?
116 iwog   2017 Oct 8, 3:15pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
Are you the only one here, Iwog? Are there no other posters besides you in this thread? Who was last being addressed by the last few posts?


Don't be disingenuous by answering my question with a question. I asked you straight out and it DIRECTLY addresses your bullshit straw man. Answer it:

WHO HERE IS ADVOCATING BANNING FIREARMS??? Who the fuck are you arguing with that wants guns BANNED??
117 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 8, 3:19pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
iwog says
Don't be disingenuous by answering my question with a question. I asked you straight out and it DIRECTLY addresses your bullshit straw man. Answer it:


Is Socrates disingenuous?

iwog says
WHO HERE IS ADVOCATING BANNING FIREARMS??? Who the fuck are you arguing with that wants guns BANNED??


I'm arguing that more guns clearly, mathematically, and undeniably, don't equate to more murder.

Re-read the OP. What's the point of this thread again? Do you think I might be trying to get somebody to respond to the OP question?

It ain't all about you, Iwog.
118 me123   2017 Oct 8, 5:10pm   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
iwog says
Who is advocating banning firearms here?


Dude, that's the definition of a straw man. Why do you always change the subject? Answer the fucking question in the OP.
119 me123   2017 Oct 8, 8:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
me123 says
me123 says
please post the chart that shows how many legal gun owners are selling their guns to criminals.


Hey bobby boy, got that chart yet?
120 FortWayne   2017 Oct 8, 8:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Democrats just want to use this tragedy for personal political gain of some sort. Nothing else to it, everything else is story for the gullible supporters of the Democratic party.
121 bob2356   2017 Oct 8, 8:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says

There is NO link between the increasing prevalence of firearms and the decreasing homicide rate.


Then why did you claim there was a link for so long? I was beginning to think you were the poster boy for the failings of the american educational system. Can you let ironman know this now?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Bob, do you want more gun restrictions?


No I don't want more gun restrictions. Depending on what you define as restriction. But I don't want this bullshit about increasing numbers of guns reducing the murder rate used as a wedge for the NRA to destroy any type of rational rules about gun ownership. Look at Wisconsin. They proposed carry with the stipulation of needing to take a class. The NRA (aka the gun manufacturers) went apeshit and carpet bombed the state with a blitz of propaganda about how having to take a class was dismantling the second amendment. Absurd.

What I do want is to track guns. Strawmen buyers are providing criminals with the majority of their guns. They should be in jail as should the legit gun owner who sold a gun to them no questions asked. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html You and ironman can look up many more articles and studies that say the same thing. There is this really cool new program called google.com. Check it out. Just type where do criminals get their guns and lots of stuff to read comes up. Really it's true.
123 errc   2017 Oct 11, 9:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
My house is gun free as well, and I guarantee if one of you sissy fucking Betas came around here looking for shit, you’d get tossed out on your ass with a mouthful. That sign is dumb.
124 iwog   2017 Oct 11, 10:09am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
When I asked TwoScoopsMcGee who on this board is advocating for a gun ban, this is how he answered:

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Is Socrates disingenuous?


TwoScoopsMcGee says
I'm arguing that more guns clearly, mathematically, and undeniably, don't equate to more murder.

Re-read the OP. What's the point of this thread again? Do you think I might be trying to get somebody to respond to the OP question?

It ain't all about you, Iwog.


However in a day or two, he will once again lie and claim Democrats are trying to ban guns. This is brain damage. This is the denial of reality that makes people like him unqualified to vote.
125 me123   2017 Oct 11, 10:55am   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
iwog says
However in a day or two, he will once again lie and claim Democrats are trying to ban guns.


So you're trying to tell us that the Dems have never tried to ban guns (or related accessories).

Is that the hill you're going to die on?
126 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 11, 11:46am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
iwog says
However in a day or two, he will once again lie and claim Democrats are trying to ban guns. This is brain damage. This is the denial of reality that makes people like him unqualified to vote.

Why wait a day or two? I'll do it right now.

The Democratic 2016 Presidential Candidate failed to get the message. Indeed, she attacked her nomination opponent for not support Gun Bans enough:




And here's the Dems' rising star Senator:


How about the 2016 Dem platform?
"To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM's)—off our streets."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf (Page 39)
When the Assault Rifle ban expired, did the homicide rate go up or down?

But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.
127 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2017 Oct 11, 11:49am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
If all of us and our wives were sitting in our parlors and kitchens with a can of Jack Daniels behind M134 through the night and into the dawn, crime would disappear overnight.

The only things that separate us from perfect tranquility is belt-fed ordnance and the will to be fucking fatal at all times, for any reason or no reason, exactly as the Founding Fathers commanded.
128 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 11, 11:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.


Yes, God forbid that a hunter can't go out and kill a deer with an assault rifle. Just how the Founding Fathers intended.
129 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2017 Oct 11, 12:04pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
The Founding Fathers demanded we take out deer and tyrannical advocates of flu vaccines with RPGs and tactical nukes.

Everyone knows that.
130 me123   2017 Oct 11, 2:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
with an assault rifle.


@joeyjojojunior

What exactly is a "assault rifle"? Can you explain what it is for me?
131 iwog   2017 Oct 11, 2:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.


I find it fascinating that you are so unbelievably lacking in any sort of self-awareness that you can merrily skip from "BAN GUNS!" to "BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!" and back to "BAN GUNS!" without the slightest acknowledgement that they are radically different solutions.

You failed as you always do. You failed to support your point and substituted a different point and hoped no one noticed. Do you want to talk about how people want to ban guns or do you want to talk about how people want to ban assault rifles? Neither. You want to dishonestly lie, same as CBOE dishonestly lies, same as piggy lies, same as Goran lies, and talk about both simultaneously and neither simultaneously. How pathetic.

Explain to me why nearly everyone on the right participating in this forum have such dismal ethical standards? Symptoms of a disease no?
132 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 11, 2:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
me123 says
What exactly is a "assault rifle"? Can you explain what it is for me?


There is no set definition per se. Congress defined it in the 1994 ban as this:



Others have other definitions such as this:

"The technical definition of an assault rifle consists of four requirements:
1 It is a shoulder mounted weapon
2. It is magazine fed.
3. It is intermediate power.
4. It is selective fire."

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-definition-of-assault-rifle
133 jazz_music   2017 Oct 11, 3:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
I never owned a rifle until a couple years ago. I shot other people's rifles, better than mine too. I always had an ACP or two for home protection and fun plinking on rare occasion. Probably a 38 revolver would have been a more optimal choice. --so simple! My brother always had more guns and I would sometimes tag along with him.

I got a really cheap AR-15 new at a gun show from a dealer who assembles parts and sells. Extra magazines, padded stock, lanyard for carrying hands-free, iron sites and red dot site. I nice canvas bag to hold most of the stuff and a cleaning kit. I returned the high-powered scope I bought because someone convinced me that my barrel is not that good so it makes no sense.

It seems like a lot of crap but it was very cost effective. I could even go and buy a better barrel for it if the standard one proves to be too bad. I think AR-15's are cool: All this modular design makes it versatile, easy to clean, lubricate and upgrade. As a toy I have thought of getting the bump-stock but I don't really care to have such a "bullet-wasting testosterone demonstration unit." --bang bang wahoo, fuck all that, there's more important things to do.

Only problem is I just assembled, cleaned and lubricated the whole thing and there it sits. Never been shot. I just don't care about guns that much to go out and bang bang wahoo! --I realize that I should get acquainted with the weapon anyways and make adjustments, and then clean and lube again.

If we lose civil society after the next black swan event or tax cut, I am more or less all set to ward off home invaders, maybe shoot animals for dinner, but I would have to learn how to strip down a carcass, I know my wife isn't going to touch that kind of work, so I better go get a better hunting knife too just in case. --more crap I don't really want.

A neighbor came into my place looking for his girlfriend, then kneeled down and shot himself in the head with a 357 magnum revolver in front of everybody one time 35 years ago.

Just sayin'

Yeah, fear of restrictive laws influenced my decision to buy the AR-15.

Fear fear fear, welcome to America!
134 bob2356   2017 Oct 11, 6:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
How about the 2016 Dem platform?
"To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM's)—off our streets."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf (Page 39)
When the Assault Rifle ban expired, did the homicide rate go up or down?

But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.


Waw, waw, waw. Those bad democrats want to ban ar-15's and ak-47's. That's awful. They are such great hunting rifles. Plus, how can I hunt deer without a 30 round clip and bump stock? Dont' forget a silencer, wouldn't want hearing damage.

It's good that you recognize you are a brain damaged liar. Admitting to a problem is the first step to a cure.
135 me123   2017 Oct 11, 6:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
me123 says
What exactly is a "assault rifle"? Can you explain what it is for me?


There is no set definition per se.


Then how are you going to ban them if you can't have a set definition?
136 anonymous   2017 Oct 11, 6:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
The same way they were banned in the past. You make a definition when you write the law.
137 me123   2017 Oct 11, 7:01pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
"The technical definition of an assault rifle consists of four requirements:
1 It is a shoulder mounted weapon
2. It is magazine fed.
3. It is intermediate power.
4. It is selective fire."

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-definition-of-assault-rifle


Which no Joe 6 Pack can actually legally buy in that configuration.

Why did you leave this portion of the link out?

...."And Selective fire means that it can be switched from semiautomatic to either full auto or burst fire. In either case, the weapon fires more than one shot with each pull of the trigger and is therefore classified as a machine-gun.

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is. There is no fixed definition and it means whatever the governing body wants it to mean. In many cases, they look at things like a flash hider or pistol grip stock or even a collapsable stock as their definition."


You don't even lie well, I hope your trolling company doesn't pay you for today.
138 anonymous   2017 Oct 11, 8:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
There are intelligent right wingers out there. .But they are mighty dishonest too, if they thought Trump was a safer bet than Clinton.
139 bob2356   2017 Oct 11, 8:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is.


Pretty amazing that the federal government was able to have an assault weapon ban when cic says there isn't any assault weapons. How did they do that?
140 me123   2017 Oct 11, 10:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
bob2356 says
me123 says

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is.


Pretty amazing that the federal government was able to have an assault weapon ban when cic says there isn't any assault weapons. How did they do that?


and did you see the YYUUGGEE number of decreased homicides because of it. Worked well, didn't it?

Oh wait, it didn't,

..."Research by John Lott found no impact of these bans on violent crime rates,[33] but provided evidence that the bans may have reduced the number of gun shows by over 20 percent.
141 bob2356   2017 Oct 12, 5:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
bob2356 says
me123 says

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is.


Pretty amazing that the federal government was able to have an assault weapon ban when cic says there isn't any assault weapons. How did they do that?


and did you see the YYUUGGEE number of decreased homicides because of it. Worked well, didn't it?


So now you are saying there is such a thing as an assault weapon. First there isn't now there is.
142 me123   2017 Oct 12, 8:05am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
bob2356 says
So now you are saying there is such a thing as an assault weapon. First there isn't now there is.


There always was, actually, there are many. Here's just one example:

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