Family on the hook for $37K after housing deal falls through
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Family on the hook for $37K after housing deal falls through

By anonymous following x   2017 Oct 13, 1:48am 2,051 views   93 comments   watch   quote     share    



#housing

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54   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 3:05pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says

Hey, I agree. Examples of wealth and power concentrated in the hands of the few are kings, dictators, religious wackos, and communists. Not in democracies such as ours.
Why can't you see it?


God, you are brainwashed.

First off, America is not and has never been a democracy. That is just factually wrong. There hasn't been a democracy on Earth since the ancient city-state of Rome degraded into a republic.

Second, political systems are not economic systems or vice versa. Democracy and capitalism have fucking nothing to do with each other.

Third, the tax proposal I made had nothing to do with kings, dictators, religious wackos, or communists.

Fourth, the current system concentrates wealth and power into the hands of the few. My proposed system does the exact opposite, allowing each individual to maximize his wealth by and only by maximizing his productivity.
55   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 4:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says
me123 says
Hey Dan, have you figured out yet how a building can appreciate? Since you own so much property, that question should be easy for you to answer


Why don't you tell us?


CIC? Do you plan on answering this or are you going to run like your buddy Goran whenever anyone asks you a question?
56   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 15, 4:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan - I'm read your response but if we can carry your hypothetical to the end I think I would understand better.

So if our builder friend bought the land for 200k and spent 50k on building improvements (again new build- not flipping). If he sold for 3 months later for 260k, and the 10k gain was taxed at 100% (meaning he got his original 250k back) where is our builders profit?
57   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 4:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anonymous says
Dan - I'm read your response but if we can carry your hypothetical to the end I think I would understand better.

So if our builder friend bought the land for 200k and spent 50k on building improvements (again new build- not flipping). If he sold for 3 months later for 260k, and the 10k gain was taxed at 100% (meaning he got his original 250k back) where is our builders profit?


I'm not sure what Dan meant, but it'd be pretty easy for the builder to charge his labor at $200/hour and really pad his hours (like a corporate lawyer) and he'd do fine.
58   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 4:37pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anonymous says
Dan - I'm read your response but if we can carry your hypothetical to the end I think I would understand better.

So if our builder friend bought the land for 200k and spent 50k on building improvements (again new build- not flipping). If he sold for 3 months later for 260k, and the 10k gain was taxed at 100% (meaning he got his original 250k back) where is our builders profit?


The 50k of improvements added to the cost basis of the house includes payment of the labor of the builder. When a builder augments a house, whether it's a house he owns or someone else does, the cost of the augmentation includes parts and labor. The builder makes money, tax free, on his labor. He just does not make profit off the appreciation of the land.

That said, it would be more efficient for the builder to fix homes owned by other people using their preferences for flooring, cabinets, etc. than to speculate on what the market wants. The only reason the later is more common today is that it's a way to extract rising land values.

Your builder's livelihood is not harmed by my tax plan. In fact, his livelihood is improved since people who don't waste money on zero-sum land games have money to hire your builder. The more people have to spend on land due to hoarding, the less they have to spend on builders and all other services.

Eliminating zero-sum games maximizes the profitability of productivity. Where do you think all the wealth that goes to the winners of zero-sum games come from? It comes from other people's productivity. Wealth is created only by productivity.
59   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 15, 5:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ok dan. Thanks
60   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 15, 5:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Joey jo jo

I'm not CIC but I have seen cases where buildings appreciate. In my neighborhood land records show in the 1900s row-houses sold for anywhere between $600 and $1,000

Today the old buildings are assessed for 200-400k. Granted many have been maintained/materials replaced.

That aside however, today I could pull up my antique hardwood floor and sell it for more than the entire house cost 117 years ago. I know this isn't the norm with most materials being replaced every 15-30 years, but allow it to sit long enough it may become an antique.
61   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 6:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anonymous says
In my neighborhood land records show in the 1900s row-houses sold for anywhere between $600 and $1,000

Today the old buildings are assessed for 200-400k. Granted many have been maintained/materials replaced.


And the land under them has appreciated. That was Dan's point.

anonymous says
That aside however, today I could pull up my antique hardwood floor and sell it for more than the entire house cost 117 years ago. I know this isn't the norm with most materials being replaced every 15-30 years, but allow it to sit long enough it may become an antique.


Don't forget to inflation adjust them. Regardless, Dan is right that buildings depreciate and land appreciates.
62   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 6:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

me123 says
First, I didn't ask YOU the question, I already know your lack of knowledge of the housing market.

Second, I'll give you and Danny boy a hint, see if you can figure it out. Can you say "foreclosure"?


So, I'll take that to mean you can't. Otherwise you wouldn't play stupid games to pretend like you have a point.
63   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 6:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says
Strategist says
Most things are made in China because of cheap labor.


Which is a failure of capitalism. The bottom line is that the largest Communist country with the strongest Communist culture is kicking America's ass. This means your assertion is wrong.

Wrong. China is proof positive of the success of capitalism. China started shooting up the moment they adopted capitalism in their economy. They now have well over a 100 billionaires. Think that's communism?

Dan8267 says
Strategist says
To date, China has contributed very little to scientific progress.


Empirically false. You are simply sticking your head in the sand. China is rapidly owning all STEM and manufacturing infrastructure. It builds entire cities in less time it takes America to build a 9/11 memorial. It is at the forefront of many technological industries.

Inventions, discoveries, and creativity is firmly in the hands of America. You just love to bash America don't you? Pathetic. You should be stripped of your citizenship and booted out.
64   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 6:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

me123 says
So, I'll take that even with the hint I gave you, you're still clueless. Why am I not surprised?


lol--You're obviously wrong and that's why you can't answer. Just admit it and we can move on.
65   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 7:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says

Second, political systems are not economic systems or vice versa. Democracy and capitalism have fucking nothing to do with each other.

You need both for the kind of success America has achieved.

Dan8267 says
Your builder's livelihood is not harmed by my tax plan. In fact, his livelihood is improved since people who don't waste money on zero-sum land games have money to hire your builder. The more people have to spend on land due to hoarding, the less they have to spend on builders and all other services.

The livelihood of the whole country is destroyed by your tax plan. You need to stop dreaming.

Dan8267 says
Wealth is created only by productivity.

The credit for which goes to capitalism. e.g. Ford created the assembly line in his car factories.
66   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 7:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says
He just does not make profit off the appreciation of the land.


Dan, If someone purchased a pice of land for $20K, and he is willing to sell, and I am willing to buy for $50K, why do you care?
What about a painting that sells for $10 million? Why do you care who pays what? Butt out of everyones affairs. Mind your own business.
67   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

me123 says
So, your assertion is that the land is what increased the value 55% and not the building in 5 months?


No, I'm assuming someone did work on it. And the cost basis went up.
68   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

me123 says
Wait, you've been saying all along in this thread that the building doesn't increase in value, only the land. Are you confused?


It didn't. Someone put money into it. That's not appreciation.
69   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

My lord. CIC, you really need to just go away and let the adults have a conversation.
70   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 7:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says
me123 says
Wait, you've been saying all along in this thread that the building doesn't increase in value, only the land. Are you confused?


It didn't. Someone put money into it. That's not appreciation.


You and Dan need to learn about "price appreciation"
A painting that sells for $20 million, that cost the painter $10.00 to paint, is price appreciation. There was no gold added to it.
Aren't you and Dan glad there are Patnetters here who you can count on to educate you two?
71   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

me123 says
Funny how you type that same thing when you get your ass handed to you and proven wrong.


Because you don't understand the conversation and don't realize how much of an idiot you have become. You're like a fly buzzing around-it can't hurt anyone, but it's just annoying.
72   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 8:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

me123 says
Understanding Appreciation and Depreciation of Home Values

What Can Homeowners Do to Maximize Home Appreciation?

Another way to help a home appreciate is to make property improvements with lasting value. However, this doesn’t mean creating a Taj Mahal. It’s best to be the moderate home on the block, rather than the most or least expensive home. When choosing improvement projects, consider the value of homes in the neighborhood and plan upgrades that will fit in with the style and feel of the community.

Making upgrades to the property to bring the home in line with others in the neighborhood may increase its value faster than time and inflation alone. It does, of course, takes time and money to complete the necessary projects to boost appreciation.


Thanks for posting this. This is exactly what I was telling a friend recently.
If you have a $200,000 home and decide to make $100,000 of improvements, you will likely lose 80% of the improvement cost.
If you have a $2 million dollar home, and you want to improve it, it will probably pay to add $250,000 of improvements.
You need to keep up with the neighborhood, or else you will lose out.
73   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 8:16pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Wrong. China is proof positive of the success of capitalism. China started shooting up the moment they adopted capitalism in their economy. They now have well over a 100 billionaires. Think that's communism?


China has a city entirely devoted to making buttons. And you don't think that's government centralized economic planning? You are so ignorant of the world.

The Chinese government builds entire cities from scratch. That's centralizing planing on a scale not ever even seen before.

The fact remains that your assertion that capitalism is the one and only way for an economy to be productive is outright false. Now you're redefining anything that succeeds as capitalism. This is completely dishonest.

Strategist says
Dan8267 says
Strategist says
To date, China has contributed very little to scientific progress.


Empirically false. You are simply sticking your head in the sand. China is rapidly owning all STEM and manufacturing infrastructure. It builds entire cities in less time it takes America to build a 9/11 memorial. It is at the forefront of many technological industries.

Inventions, discoveries, and creativity is firmly in the hands of America. You just love to bash America don't you? Pathetic. You should be stripped of your citizenship and booted out.


I could say the same of you for whitewashing history and attacking your fellow Americans, and I could make a better case. Nonetheless, acknowledging that China has made rapid progress in science and technology is hardly bashing America. What does harm America is your brainwashed mentality that everything big business does is right and American can learn nothing from anyone else and nothing can be done to make America better. You do nothing but harm America. If anyone should be kicked out, it's you.

Strategist says

You need both for the kind of success America has achieved.


Empirically false. America is not a democracy. Therefore, democracy cannot be responsible for "the kind of success America has achieved". You really are an idiot, aren't you? You're not pretending to be a brain washed identity politics cold war moron. You really are one.

Here's a litmus test. A democracy, by definition, is a system of government in which people directly vote for the laws and policies, as oppose to a republic, which is an entirely different kind of government in which people elect politicians to create laws and govern. Is America a democracy? Hint: Fuck no, it's a republic. Prediction: You'll still get the question wrong even though I just gave you the answer.

Strategist says
The livelihood of the whole country is destroyed by your tax plan. You need to stop dreaming.


A baseless assertion. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Strategist says
Dan8267 says
Wealth is created only by productivity.

The credit for which goes to capitalism. e.g. Ford created the assembly line in his car factories.


There is nothing about an owner class siphoning the vast majority of labor's wealth creation that is necessary for prosperity. Nor does the tax reform I propose in any way change our economic system. You are now just making red herrings.

Strategist says
Dan, If someone purchased a pice of land for $20K, and he is willing to sell, and I am willing to buy for $50K, why do you care?


There is no legitimate "first owner" claim to land, a fixed public resource. Hoarding drives up the cost of land, the cost of living, and prevents people from spending their money on everything else. Allowing hoarding and zero-sum games interferes with the virtuous cycle of productivity and consumption which is responsible for all wealth creation and good economies. You are a fool if you cannot understand this. Even junior high students can understand this.
74   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 8:21pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

me123 says
joeyjojojunior says
And the land under them has appreciated. That was Dan's point.


No, Dan doesn't have a point, he's clueless, just like you.


So let's go over the things that piggy thinks.
1. All niggers are guilty of crimes for simply being niggers.
2. Climate change is a hoax perpetrated by hundreds of thousands of scientists around the world and every scientific organization as well as both NASA and the Pentagon. They are all in on it.
3. Obama was a secret Kenyan Muslim who wasn't born in the United States.
4. Land does not appreciate, buildings do.
5. Patrick is a dumb ass who can't code.
6. Goats are better than women for fucking.

Did I miss anything?

So why is he still on this site? Patrick should just nuke all his alts as soon as they are detected along with all their posts.
75   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 8:22pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says
me123 says
Wait, you've been saying all along in this thread that the building doesn't increase in value, only the land. Are you confused?


It didn't. Someone put money into it. That's not appreciation.


Precisely. This is why cost basis are calculated in taxes on capital gains.
76   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 8:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says

I could say the same of you for whitewashing history and attacking your fellow Americans, and I could make a better case. Nonetheless, acknowledging that China has made rapid progress in science and technology is hardly bashing America.


i have always given credit to China for embracing capitalism and progressing. Only those who accept capitalism have had sustained progress. it's very strange you have to use countries like China with their 100+ billionaires to even attempt to prove that communism is what caused their success. can you name any communist countries with any success? Go ahead I'm waiting.
77   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 8:49pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Dan8267 says

5. Patrick is a dumb ass who can't code.
6. Goats are better than women for fucking.

Did I miss anything?

So why is he still on this site? Patrick should just nuke all his alts as soon as they are detected along with all their posts.


Stop sucking up to Patrick. It's disgusting.
78   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 10:03pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

Strategist says
Stop sucking up to Patrick. It's disgusting.


I'm not, you lying sack of shit. However, Patrick isn't an idiot who can't code his own site. He's been doing this for over a decade. So my objection to piggy's attack is quite valid.
79   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 15, 10:03pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

me123 says
CHECKMATE.... Again


Only a child declares victory and runs away.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

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