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Freedom to Offend

By Patrick follow Patrick   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 476,233 views   530 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


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Patrick.net is an anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is nothing but the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.


I especially want people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is no problem. Enjoy your freedom on this site, but please try to keep it about ideas and not about the other users or the site itself. I love Texas Congressman Dan Crenshaw's philosophy about political debate:

https://patrick.net/post/1326765/2019-08-23-perfect-description-of-how-public-debate-should-be

There are many ideas that we will never agree on. The left and the right have different ways of approaching governance, based on contrasting philosophies. But many of the ultimate goals — economic prosperity, better health care and education, etc. — are the same. We just don’t share the same vision of how to achieve them.

How, then, do we live together in this world of differing ideas? For starters, let’s agree that the ideas are fair game. If you think my idea is awful, you should say as much. But there is a difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person behind that idea. Labeling someone as an “-ist” who believes in an “-ism” because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun.

Similarly, people too often attack not just an idea but also the supposed intent behind an idea. That raises the emotional level of the debate and might seem like it strengthens the attacker’s side, but it’s a terrible way to make a point. Assuming the worst about your opponents’ intentions has the effect of demonizing their ideas, removing the need for sound counter-reasoning and fact-based argument. That’s not a good environment for the exchange of ideas.


The primary moderation rule is to not attack other users or the site itself. Personal attacks solve nothing, and in fact get us further away from solving anything. Examine what is said, not who speaks, and try to acknowledge whatever truth there is in what the other person is saying before attacking the flaws in their argument.

If you don't like this site, go somewhere else. This site cost you nothing, was a lot of work for me, and doesn't even have advertising. If you can't resist insulting the other users or the site itself over and over, you'll be banned and your comments deleted.

To repeat, here are the rules:

1. Do not insult the other users.
2. Do not insult the site.

Flag personal attacks and attacks on the site with the "flag" link by each comment so that they will go into moderation where they will be reviewed by a moderator. Please do not flag comments just because you don't like them.

If you're wondering why your comment was flagged, please click the "edit" link on it. It should be pretty obvious when you read your own words again. If you think there was a mistake about the content's being flagged, please write p@patrick.net

If you don't have the "flag" link, please report personal comments to p@patrick.net by email.


Here are the original articles that made this site famous:

https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing

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« First    « Previous    Comments 491 - 530 of 530    Last »

491   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Jul 16, 6:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
Onvacation says
That's not offensive.


Is or is not?

It's so hard to write sarcastically.
492   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Aug 31, 3:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CovfefeButDeadly says
When I was a kid every liberal HATED this song. But every liberal supported Axl’s right to write and sing it.

Not one “liberal” today would be ok with it. The left would literally lose their shit over this song, boycott and protest the band and their record company...



One of my favorite gnr songs. Honestly openly racist and offensive, like most art and music used to be.
494   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 25, 2:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
That's exactly what I'm talking about.


Another screen name the DNC lets out of the box every six months.
495   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 27, 12:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
On the 'Freedom to offend' website, you will get censored for typing out "That's exactly what I'm talking about".

You can't make this stuff up. Brother Patrick, I implore you to reconsider your policies.


Why?

You post here every few years.
496   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 27, 1:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
On the 'Freedom to offend' website, you will get censored for typing out "That's exactly what I'm talking about".

You can't make this stuff up. Brother Patrick, I implore you to reconsider your policies.


Reconsider the policy of not allowing users to personally insult each other? Nope. It works well and is the right thing to do.

You consistently deliberately insult the other users personally, and then insult the site for flagging your insults.

Don't do that, and nothing will be flagged. Try this simple experiment: register with a new email that I cannot possibly know about, and don't insult the other users or the site. Note how nothing gets flagged then!

If you really feel the need to shit on people, do it somewhere else.
497   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 29, 10:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
You deleted a single post that read merely "That's exactly what I'm talking about."


One of the rules is not to insult the site itself. Making up false claims about the site is insulting it.

Please come up with a comment of yours that was flagged, but is not actually insulting the site or another user. If it was flagged by someone by mistake, I can undo that.

Note that flagged comments can be edited by you, thus you can see what they say by clicking "edit".

DoofusRicky says
Another screen name the DNC lets out of the box every six months.


You could flag that. I just want people to discuss issues and not each other or the site.
498   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Oct 29, 10:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
I have not even perused your small part of the web for many months

I think Patrick has been clear on his stance. You're free to do what you want, but maybe go back to what you have been doing and not peruse this small part of the web? No one is forcing you or anyone to be here. It's difficult to take one seriously when they complain about a site, yet here they are. Strange.

Beauty of the internet is anyone can create their own site like this. Patrick has even offered the "keys" to mimic this exact site with your own content. Take his offer up and create compelling content that people will adore. Until then, just follow the rules I suppose or don't show up. It's not your site.
499   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 29, 10:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, that.

Thanks @WookieMan
500   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 29, 11:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If you're not happy with the site, there are zillions of others.
501   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 29, 11:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
It's just a shame considering what you had before.

A free for all where debate often devolved into personal attack and name calling. Bring facts to the debate and spew hate elsewhere.
502   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Oct 29, 11:37am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
Clearly you are happy with the result.

Not what he said. Find me a site where every user is happy, let alone the person running it? Won't happen.
DoofusRicky says
It's just a shame considering what you had before.

Are you talking about housing? The core of that is still around from time to time. The reality is that housing is pretty stabile now. Sure prices are high, but no evidence of a "crash" coming outside of maybe a few coastal areas. And even then it's nothing dramatic.

The site evolved. Everyone can sit here and talk about a non-story everyday (housing) and eventually there'd be no one here. So politics have become the headlines now. Everyone is free to bring up any topic they want though. Us users can kind of make the site whatever we want. Right now it happens to be politics. I'm personally not a fan of national politics, but I still make my way here at least weekly and certain times daily. And some of the characters here are hysterical. Even some that I don't agree with. It's just fun and not serious.

Without bashing, what's your vision of the site? What was so good about that past that you'd want to come back again? You sound like a past user with a different name now and coding your writing as a disguise. Which is fine. Patrick has seemingly always been open to constructive criticism about the site. You just keep waxing poetically on the past with no suggestions. How about you just tell him?
503   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Oct 29, 11:56am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Bring facts to the debate
Like they’re obese and have iPhones, right.

Content that is so great, you got to repeat it incessantly.
504   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Oct 29, 11:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will
How can we get more of that?
505   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Oct 29, 12:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
WookieMan says
What was so good about that past that you'd want to come back again?


Have I not answered that question in spades?

No, not really. Content and meetups? You can post any content you want and comment on any you want. Set up a meetup and see if people will come. I don't think by the standards of the West Coast Patrick was receiving any donations of value that made running the site worth it or profitable by any means.

What do you want specifically to come back from the past? That made the site better in your mind (without bashing)? Nothing is stopping you from creating content, setting up a meetup and donating. Please explain what you actually want?
506   HEYYOU   ignore (44)   2019 Oct 29, 12:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Calling Republicans that can't pay off their debt today,financial failures,is not offensive it's just fact.
507   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 29, 1:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
However it is much harder to argue with my list of real tangible results. Is this not the case?

Patrick used to make SO MUCH MONEY for Patrick when iwog and Dan were calling everyone idiots.
508   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 29, 1:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Like they’re obese and have iPhones, right.

Just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
509   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Oct 29, 1:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DoofusRicky says
Although you tried to sabotage my list of facts, they remain facts.

What facts? It's a website. All you're stating is opinions. Whether you want to like it or not, that's what they are. Users are more than welcome to donate, set up meetups and post content they want. I don't understand what the issue is. You seem to be taking issue with something that is wholly in your control, yet you blame it on Patrick and his site?

You have the keys to the car, but are acting like you don't know how to unlock the door to get in. Or that you got a free car you don't like and refuse to get in. Move on then, find a better vehicle.
510   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 29, 1:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Deleting DoofusRicky for insulting the site over and over instead of debating issues with good will like almost everyone else here.

Sick of it.
511   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 29, 2:13pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
DoofusRicky says
You deleted a single post that read merely "That's exactly what I'm talking about."


One of the rules is not to insult the site itself. Making up false claims about the site is insulting it.

Please come up with a comment of yours that was flagged, but is not actually insulting the site or another user. If it was flagged by someone by mistake, I can undo that.

Note that flagged comments can be edited by you, thus you can see what they say by clicking "edit".

DoofusRicky says
Another screen name the DNC lets out of the box every six months.


You could flag that. I just want people to discuss issues and not each other or the site.


I do find it curious how dormant accounts spring to life all at once.
512   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Oct 29, 2:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Patrick says
expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will
How can we get more of that?


From the guy who links to leftist propaganda sites nearly exclusively?
513   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Oct 29, 2:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

C'mon, that's personal. It's about him instead of the arguments.

Let's refute the leftist propaganda with facts and arguments, or if you really don't want to see the guy, put him on ignore.
514   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2019 Oct 29, 3:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Content that is so great, you got to repeat it incessantly.


"...Trumpards"
515   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 2:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Deleting DoofusRicky for insulting the site over and over instead of debating issues with good will like almost everyone else here.

Sick of it.


I had him on ignore. But I could see you and Wookie and others quoting him in your responses. It was hilarious.

Hilarious how? He was just FUCKING TROLLING YOU and you kept responding to him like he was engaging seriously. Yes, I know it doesn't look that way at first and thus you kinda get rope-a-doped in. Happens to me all the time as I am sure you have observed. But I compensated for that....and concluded that you still fell into that trap in the end.

I would just suggest that instead of wasting valuable time and cloud resources like that, you considering using the NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW! button earlier and more often. Try it for a month and see how it works. :)

NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
516   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 1, 2:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
Hilarious how? He was just FUCKING TROLLING YOU and you kept responding to him like he was engaging seriously.

Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.
517   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 3:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.


Ummm...every word you just wrote after 'Disagree' SUPPORTS my entire contention, actually.
518   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 1, 3:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
WookieMan says
Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.


Ummm...every word you just wrote after 'Disagree' SUPPORTS my entire contention, actually.

True. I just wouldn't categorize it in the typical trolling category though. It's specific to this specific site. This exact type of trolling doesn't work on another site. Hard to classify it really. Surprised he's come back at all.
519   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 1, 4:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
No, you are heckling commenters who say things outside the alt right bubble. —not in any way related to government and whether or not it is idiotic.

As if you speak for the real world. You don’t. Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts, (lies) fantasies and conspiracies.

And that is virtue signaling to your brotherhood, all victims of the poor, the immigrants, the races and women. You sandbag personal comments using “we” to feign authority.

All marching to make the rich richer come what may.
520   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (49)   2019 Nov 1, 4:17pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

CUNTS!

YOUR!

FUCKING! GOD! IS!

SUCH! A! BIG! FAT! EFFEMINATE! SNOWFLAKE! WHO IS! SO FUCKING ASSTUCKISH, THAT HIS PARENTS LOCKED HIM AWAY IN A MILITARY SCHOOL TO BEAT THE HOMO OUT OF HIM!

THEY! HAVE! TO! ASK! FOR! THEIR! MONEY! BACK!

YOU! STUPID! CUNTS!
521   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 5:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Onvacation says
Just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
No, you are heckling commenters who say things outside the alt right bubble. —not in any way related to government and whether or not it is idiotic.

As if you speak for the real world. You don’t. Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts, (lies) fantasies and conspiracies.

And that is virtue signaling to your brotherhood, all victims of the poor, the immigrants, the races and women. You sandbag personal comments using “we” to feign authority.

All marching to make the rich richer come what may.

No, just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
522   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 5:10pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts

How dare you assume my gender. Next you will accuse me of having white privilege!

Anyone that wants to work can be successful in America. Even if you don't want to work the government will give you a cell phone and enough food to make you obese.

Idiocracy.
524   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 22, 7:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There are backups every night at 3am California time. If it was from today after the backup then it's really gone.

From the date in the url it looks like it was from today. Sorry about that.

Maybe I should make deletions work differently.
525   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 22, 11:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dammit @Patrick, I did it again with the Trans Thread I had on Chicago PS 211. Maybe I gotta reposition my mouse and keyboard.
526   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 23, 12:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ah, it really is a bug! Thanks for bringing my attention to it.

There should be a popup confirmation that you really want to delete. I will fix that.
527   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 23, 1:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Thanks Pat!
528   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 30, 6:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@NoCoupForYou

OK, if you hold down the shift key and reload, the new javascript should give you a popup confirmation before you delete a post.

Let me know if it doesn't work. Sorry for the delay.
529   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Dec 3, 11:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Patrick another minor bug is that if you are reading a thread and a comment from an ignored person comes in then you will see that comment added by the dynamic refresh.
530   VINCENT   ignore (0)   2019 Dec 9, 9:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Any reason why I am not allowed to post new comments anymore?

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